Is it true that Arabs and Jews lived harmoniously in Arab lands before 1948? Did “Jewish terrorists” intrude into the Arabs’ traditionally poor but tranquil existence in ‘Palestine’ ....and when Palestine became Israel in 1948, “Jews forced the exodus of millions of Arabs from their plots of land inhabited by them from time immemorial?”
The historical detective work by Joan Peters has produced startling results, which should impact any discussion about the “Palestinian problem.”
The following review of Joan Peters’ landmark book, FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL: The Origins of the Arab-Jewish Conflict Over Palestine is one of the most balanced and comprehensive I could find. No discussion of this controversial issue should exclude the factual information in this objective, well-researched account of what has transpired leading up to the volatile situation that exists today. I am wading through the 600 plus pages and finding the book fascinating and highly readable. Here is the Amazon review:
Conversion on the Road to Damascus
By Joseph Haschka (Glendale, CA USA)
In the first two paragraphs of FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL, author Joan Peters states:
"... The book was originally meant to be solely an investigation of the current plight of the 'Arab refugees,' as that subject was then still generally known ... The deprivation of Arab refugees' human rights and the political manipulation of their unfortunate situation were unconscionable to me, particularly because it seemed their plight had been prolonged by a mechanism funded predominantly by contributions from the United States..."
It is inferred that she gave credence to the observation by Pope John Paul II in 1980:
"...the Jewish people ... gave birth to the state of Israel (after) the extermination of so many sons and daughters, (but) at the same time, a sad condition was created for the Palestinian people who were excluded from their homeland. These are facts everyone can see."
Yet, near the end of the book on page 390, Peters states:
"The Arabs believe that by creating an Arab Palestinian identity, at the sacrifice of the well-being and the very lives of the 'Arab refugees', they will accomplish politically and through 'guerilla warfare' what they failed to achieve in military combat: the destruction of Israel - the unacceptable independent dhimmi state. That is the heart of the matter."
Saul of Tarsus himself, on the road to Damascus, hardly experienced such a reversal of beliefs. How did Joan arrive at this place?
Evidently, via exhaustively thorough research. FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL contains 121 pages of Notes and a 13-page Bibliography, both in a small type that challenged my aging vision. As one who hated being tasked with semester-ending research papers in high school, the enormity of Joan's project boggles the mind. The amount of information she presents, consistently referenced by the Notes, is prodigious. At times, it verges on the exhausting.
A convenient starting point for a summary of Joan's narrative can perhaps be taken at the beginning of Chapter 3, "The Arab Jew", when she returns to a time immemorial, circa 622 A.D., with the rise of Muhammad:
"... the Prophet Muhammad's original plan had been to induce the Jews to adopt Islam ... but the Jewish community rejected the Prophet Muhammad's religion ... Three years later, Arab hostility against the Jews commenced, when the Meccan army exterminated the Jewish tribe of Quraiza. As a result of the Prophet Muhammad's resentment, the Holy Koran itself contains many of his hostile denunciations of Jews and bitter attacks on Jewish tradition, which undoubtedly have colored the beliefs of religious Muslims down to the present ... Omar, the caliph who succeeded Muhammad, delineated in his Charter of Omar the twelve laws under which a dhimmi, or non-Muslim, was allowed to exist as a 'non-believer' among 'believers.' The Charter codified the conditions of life for Jews under Islam - a life which was forfeited if the dhimmi broke this law."
So, with Omar's Charter in place, Peters recounts the lives of the Jews in Arab countries - Yemen, Aden, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, and Arabia - down through the subsequent centuries to the present. It gives lie to the Arab assertion that "their Jews" have been treated well under Islam.
Joan then turns to the Roman principality of Syria Palestina, which was to become "Palestine". In explaining the demographics of the region over the centuries, it's here that the sheer volume of detailed information becomes almost eye-glazing, especially when she enumerates the numbers of Jews that migrated into Palestine from 1882 to 1948, as well as the number of Arabs that migrated, legally and illegally, into the same area during the same period. In short, Joan make crystal clear that the Jews never entirely left the Holy Land, and the number of truly indigenous Arabs in Jewish-settled Western Palestine that were ostensibly displaced by the newcomers has been wildly exaggerated. And, indeed, the number of displaced Arabs is matched by an equal number of Arab Jews that have fled persecution in their home countries to take refuge in what has become Israel. This population exchange is something not acknowledged by the Arab world.
Perhaps, for me, the most revealing chapters were those detailing Britain's handling of the Palestine Mandate, which was assigned to Britain's oversight after WWI by the League of Nations and which originally grew out of the Balfour Declaration of November 1917, in which it was declared:
"His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object ..."
Yet, Britain's ultimate custody of the Mandate was reprehensibly and shamefully duplicitous. Fearful of offending the Arabs, the British government separated the National Home of the Jewish People into eastern and western sectors, the former - roughly three-quarters of the total land area of the Mandate - subsequently closed to Jewish settlement and eventually to become Jordan, and severely limited Jewish immigration into the latter while allowing rampant illegal Arab immigration into the same. The author's verdict on British actions and policy prior to and during WWII is positively scathing:
"... that the British virtually signed the death warrants for countless Jews in mortal danger by engaging the might of the British Empire to enforce strict laws against Jewish immigration; that simultaneously Government declared an excess of jobs amounting to a need of 'emergency' proportions, whereby Government not only encouraged or winked at, but officially enacted the illegal immigration of thousand of Arab indigents from neighboring and more distant lands, to take jobs in the Jewish National Home that might have saved the lives of Jewish concentration camp victims - the whole action, seen in context, matches the barbarism that the Allies were battling to defeat."
Mind you, all of this isn't a figment of Joan's imagination, but is rigorously documented and proved by contemporary records.
Any convert from one belief system to another, be it religious, political or whatever, may become overzealously energetic in espousing the new faith. Here, Peters expends her surge of energy in perhaps going further then necessary to make her bottom-line point, which is that the world is being cynically manipulated by Arab public relations when it comes to the conjoined questions of Palestine and the Palestinian refugees. However, Joan's devotion to her new-found cause doesn't produce in FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL a flawed work when it comes to historical facts, but rather one that provides more information than necessary to make the conclusion. Under the circumstances, this is understandable, but it does make for a long read.
Anti-Semites, Arab or otherwise, will positively loathe FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL for the inconvenient truths it brings to the table. Israelis and those who sympathize with them should applaud (unless they're otherwise bent on hand-wringing). Those in between must read this superlative book, along with other works representing the opposing view, to arrive at a knowledgeable position. This is perhaps one of the most informative pieces of investigatory journalism on the market today.
6/06/2008
6/05/2008
Elitism
Academic elitism seems to be manifesting these days, just as in Pharisaical times. Those lacking certain letters after their names have no room to speak, apparently, and nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation. Advanced degrees determine dogma. The uncredentialed should respectfully remain silent.
Maligned mavericks are in good company, however. Yeshua would also be disqualified by these elitist standards, not to mention most of the Apostles:
And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me. (John 7:15,16)
Recently, while watching a DVD debate between Young Earth and Old Earth proponents, I was struck by this interchange:
Ken Ham: “Where did you get that rule?”
Dr. Walter Kaiser: “That rule cost me $150,000 in graduate training.”
When Ken pointed out that other Hebraic scholars and respected lexicons had a different view, Dr. Kaiser’s answer was, “too bad for them” and cited “context” once again. This was concerning the word “yom” and whether or not it was an ordinary day (as defined by evening and morning) on Day 1, 2, and 3 in Genesis 1.
Disc 5, Part 9 of The Great Debate On Science and the Bible:
(See AIG link at Interesting Webpages)
While it is admirable that some have had the privilege and tenacity to attend seminaries and graduate schools, is this training, and the cost in dollars and time and effort, the last word in determining doctrine and proper exegesis of Scripture?
Today I was somewhat grieved as I read a modern day parable full of scathing scorn for “pseudo-scholars".....
Those who would dare to voice an opinion, tackle a practical issue, raise concerns about a seemingly unscriptural teaching, present a well-researched or self-evident Biblical truth, recommend a website, or simply ask a question are being silenced in some circles, sadly including FFOZ and TR. However, as the parody points out, the Internet is flooded with information of all kinds. Knowledge is increased, just as prophesied (Daniel 12:4). Anyone can publish a book, or an article, or a blog, not just the lettered Elite. The Internet is the Wittenburg Door of our generation.
For Zion’s sake, we will not be silent (Isaiah 62:1).
Verse for today....
God....comforteth those that are cast down.... (2 Cor. 7:6)
Maligned mavericks are in good company, however. Yeshua would also be disqualified by these elitist standards, not to mention most of the Apostles:
And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me. (John 7:15,16)
Recently, while watching a DVD debate between Young Earth and Old Earth proponents, I was struck by this interchange:
Ken Ham: “Where did you get that rule?”
Dr. Walter Kaiser: “That rule cost me $150,000 in graduate training.”
When Ken pointed out that other Hebraic scholars and respected lexicons had a different view, Dr. Kaiser’s answer was, “too bad for them” and cited “context” once again. This was concerning the word “yom” and whether or not it was an ordinary day (as defined by evening and morning) on Day 1, 2, and 3 in Genesis 1.
Disc 5, Part 9 of The Great Debate On Science and the Bible:
(See AIG link at Interesting Webpages)
While it is admirable that some have had the privilege and tenacity to attend seminaries and graduate schools, is this training, and the cost in dollars and time and effort, the last word in determining doctrine and proper exegesis of Scripture?
Today I was somewhat grieved as I read a modern day parable full of scathing scorn for “pseudo-scholars".....
A Parody on the Present State of Affairs
Are you tired of all the shoddy teaching that is constantly being foisted upon the growing Torah movement? Does it bother you that self-proclaimed "teachers" flood the internet with materials devoid of genuine scholarship? Click here for a "Modern Parable" that speaks to the issue.
www.torahresource.com/ModernParable.htm (See link at Interesting Webpages)
Those who would dare to voice an opinion, tackle a practical issue, raise concerns about a seemingly unscriptural teaching, present a well-researched or self-evident Biblical truth, recommend a website, or simply ask a question are being silenced in some circles, sadly including FFOZ and TR. However, as the parody points out, the Internet is flooded with information of all kinds. Knowledge is increased, just as prophesied (Daniel 12:4). Anyone can publish a book, or an article, or a blog, not just the lettered Elite. The Internet is the Wittenburg Door of our generation.
For Zion’s sake, we will not be silent (Isaiah 62:1).
Verse for today....
God....comforteth those that are cast down.... (2 Cor. 7:6)
6/04/2008
My Computer Wears Tzit-tzit
Four blue strings adorn the corners of my computer monitor. They remind me not to spend too much time on the Internet, to be kind in my communications, and to remember Erev in the late afternoon so that I do not fall behind in my Bible reading and thus miss the message in God’s Word.
Today’s Bible reading in Ezra talks about a river called Ahava. I wonder where that is? Ahava means love in Hebrew. The river of love. It talks about gathering there. There was a camp-out for three days in Ezra’s time. The people fasted and prayed, trusting the LORD for protection against nomadic robbers in their journey to Jerusalem.
The LORD is good. I am thankful for His protection from storms...and protection from injury when my horse stumbled and I fell off the other day. My arm is bruised but no broken bones. I need to do more with my horses than hop on once in a blue moon. Speaking of the moon, is today the New Moon.....or tomorrow? Does anyone really know what time it is? Does anyone really care? What if God’s people are celebrating His feasts on the wrong days? What if many miss the Day of Atonement this year because of calendar issues? According to Dan’s calculations, it falls on September 11 of all dates. Interesting. I feel anticipatory. I know that the LORD is preparing me for changing times, tribulation, Great Tribulation. I know He will gather the Remnant.
I discovered in my Internet searches that Tim has a jazz gig going. He plays a trumpet very well! I really like the music.
I am going to try to write something daily on my blog. Whatever comes to mind.
Verse for today.....
The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek Him; but His power and His wrath is against all them that forsake Him. (Ezra 8:22)
Today’s Bible reading in Ezra talks about a river called Ahava. I wonder where that is? Ahava means love in Hebrew. The river of love. It talks about gathering there. There was a camp-out for three days in Ezra’s time. The people fasted and prayed, trusting the LORD for protection against nomadic robbers in their journey to Jerusalem.
The LORD is good. I am thankful for His protection from storms...and protection from injury when my horse stumbled and I fell off the other day. My arm is bruised but no broken bones. I need to do more with my horses than hop on once in a blue moon. Speaking of the moon, is today the New Moon.....or tomorrow? Does anyone really know what time it is? Does anyone really care? What if God’s people are celebrating His feasts on the wrong days? What if many miss the Day of Atonement this year because of calendar issues? According to Dan’s calculations, it falls on September 11 of all dates. Interesting. I feel anticipatory. I know that the LORD is preparing me for changing times, tribulation, Great Tribulation. I know He will gather the Remnant.
I discovered in my Internet searches that Tim has a jazz gig going. He plays a trumpet very well! I really like the music.
I am going to try to write something daily on my blog. Whatever comes to mind.
Verse for today.....
The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek Him; but His power and His wrath is against all them that forsake Him. (Ezra 8:22)
5/26/2008
Lamenting the Loss: A Chronicle of Catastrophe
5/21/08 8 am.
Nate is at the control panel. I feel like I am on my death bed. The plug is about to be pulled on my beloved TR Forum. I will miss my friends and my internet life here. This is where I met Peter and Dan and Michael and Darnell and Lori and Lily and so many more. This has been one of the highlights of the past 18 months of my life. It brought me out of my depression and made me feel young and alive again.....to converse with Messianics, scholars, and intellectuals from all over the world. As the song goes, This used to be my playground. This used to be my field of dreams. Dreams of sweet, like-minded fellowship...the swan pond. Yet the dream turned into a nightmare in myriad ways. Many have scattered to apostasy, differing world views, vain philosophies, and various theologies....some seem headed downstream in a river rushing to Rome. It is hard to believe that the Messianic passion chronology view is shifting back to “Good Friday”....disregarding the sign Yeshua gave us of “three days and three nights.” It boggles my mind. How can they be so blind? Why won’t they consider Dan Gregg’s Sabbath Resurrection chronology? What are they so afraid of that they refuse to engage him in scholarly debate?
“Tzuri, Tandi, Dan, and Tim, foursquare, is my prayer”.....and has been for many months as I walk in my prayer closet [sukkah] at the back of the woods “looking toward Yerushalayim in Yeshua’s Name, Amein.” These four names are the foundation of the sending forth of the "Faith once delivered" that I envision. It is hard to keep the dream alive. Yet it is even harder to give it up. Two white oxen, a cart, yoke-fellows, “what is in the cart?” the three in the Land, the ticker-tape. What does it all mean??
I logged out at 9:11 am.
9:12 am. The dastardly deed has yet to be done! Nate is still at the control panel. May he not lose all of our posts as he tries to keep some forums active and deactivate the main forum. Or is he planning to delete all of our posts?! Please, LORD, let them still be there. I should still be able to access the Philosophy class forum. There are over 100 members of the class but no conversation, other than David from Finland.
9:25 am. Now Heather and Marc and John are here with Bill. Nate is still here in his hidden state.
9:39 am. I am able to log on still! Nate is gone. Wanda has joined us. There are 6 members and 3 guests now.
John responded to my post re: Evolution vs Creation.
Trivia: I am member #374. Join date: 8/27/06. Total posts: 470 (0.74 posts per day).
11:07 am. Forum still alive. I’ll go for a walk in the woods and pray.
11:34 am. Back from walk. I saw a wild turkey and prayed, “O LORD, help this turkey find its way.” Someone I know will connect the dots. I got real close to the turkey. It wasn’t afraid of me. Finally it ran and flew over the fence, heading home.
11:35 am. The forum is still here. Tim is at the Admin Control Panel now. There are seven of us, and two guests. I wonder if Tim will pull the plug himself soon.
I see that Dan Gregg sent me an email. I will read it now. Good one! Actually there are two...and I enjoyed reading them, as usual. He always seems to nail the truth and get to the heart of the matter...often in an entertaining way with his wry humor and colorful vocabulary.
11:52 am. I wonder if they can’t figure out how to close the main forum. What is the delay?
Time for breakfast.
12:20 pm. Tim is reading the Evolution vs Creation thread and there is a new vote for Old Earth Creationism, bringing the total to 4 out of 35. I wonder if it was Tim who voted. He mentioned on one of his audios that some were wondering if he was "going to the dark side” (for abandoning his former Wed-Sat. passion chronology for the Friday crucifixion position which he now seems to tentatively hold).
12:33 pm. I’m going to sign off for a while and hope I can log on later.
2:42 pm. Logged on! Tim and the moderators are in moderator discussion.
4:44 pm. Still a forum with conversation on the Formerly Gentiles thread.
4:49 pm. Logged off. Not feeling well. I have a bad headache. Probably stress. Read Bible chapters at Erev (time of the evening sacrifice). Came across the words in Ezekiel about scattering the sheep. Not good in God’s eyes.
My Erev song lyrics:
When the sun is even with my eyes
Erev, erev, the darkening of the skies
Call it evening, prepare the sacrifice
Praise Yeshua, for giving us His life.
(Erev is the time of long shadows, a growing mixture of day and night, transition time....the ninth hour....3-4 pm in a 12 hour day)
I logged on this evening and logged off at 8:18 pm. Going to bed now. I will read Ezekiel 34 about the scattered sheep. I wonder if the forum will still be here in the morning.
5/22/08
Today I woke up early and the forum was still operational, so I posted a JPost article about the Apostolic Scriptures being burned in Israel by Yeshiva students. I made mention of the growing intolerance for religious differences. I posted my email address and asked if we could exchange contact info. I especially wanted to get in touch with MarkW, as I think we are somewhat like-minded.
11:40 am. I was talking to Dave on Messenger when it happened. All of a sudden I noticed the forum looked different. The Main forum was gone, leaving only the Class forum and Research Exchange forum. I was still online, and Tim was there.
My reaction:
“It’s gone! Right while we were talking...Tim or Nate pulled the plug! My beloved forum! They are so mean! I feel like Terri Schiavo.....they pulled out my lifeline!”
How cruel! Not a fond farewell or a caring kol tuv....just pull the plug as if to say, “Good riddance. You people are annoying.”
Last screen shot:
What's Going On?
Currently Active Users: 9 (8 members and 1 guests)
Most users ever online was 60, 02-01-2007 at 08:56 AM.
mlafaive, bbeyer, Dan Benzvi, Heather, JKMcKee, Rebekah Lee-Giam G.L., wshepherd
Torah Resource Forums Statistics
Threads: 1,525, Posts: 20,293, Members: 656, Active Members: 164
Welcome to our newest member, Todd T
12:17 pm. Logged off. I wonder if I can log back on later. I am doing okay so far because I am talking to Dave on Messenger. We are having a nice chat. Also, I posted at Dan’s forum about his excellent article. Dave is reading that now. And we are chatting about Peter and his future. I am not depressed....yet.
2:14 pm. I am back on.....and 5 of us and 2 guests are all in the line of names hanging out together. Marc is here, and he is not enrolled in a class so they must not have purged the membership list. But only class members can post at the Philosophy forum. Yet no one has posted. Just Bill, Darnell, and Pati right now. I still do not have PM access or Member List access or access to the archives. So here we sit. Wish we could organize a silent protest...100 or more names just sitting here, shut out from the conversation. LORD, bring this idea to the minds of others to just park here.
Messenger conversation with Dave:
i am laughing
Moss says: (2:20:23 PM)
there are 9 of us here at TR forum...our names in a line as we sit with no ability to post
Moss says: (2:20:52 PM)
this could become a silent protest if everyone would get the idea to just come and park their name here in a row
Moss says: (2:21:15 PM)
what would we call it? A sign-in, a park-in?
Moss says: (2:21:32 PM)
in hippie days we had sit-ins, be-ins, etc.
Moss says: (2:22:32 PM)
there are 165 active members...what if we all just parked our names here!!!!
Moss says: (2:23:11 PM)
i must not be the only one that needs to get a life
Moss says: (2:23:19 PM)
what are the rest of them doing here?
Moss says: (2:24:05 PM)
well, i'm going to leave my name here while i take a walk. i have a life beyond the TR forum!
2:27 Paula and Sharon are here...7 members, 2 guests.
I will list those I see coming to the empty forum page like honeybees shut out from their hive.
Aaron
Heather
Dan B
Marc
Lori
Darnell
Louise
Daniel K
Jeri
Heather
Lori
Ellen
Mark W
Ryan
Tanya
Redbeard
Darnell
Aaron
Pati
Rebekah
I archived the page, the last page before it ended. I pull it up and look at it sometimes. This is a snapshot of my former life.
Darnell and Lori are hanging out there now. There is nothing to do. Why do we keep coming back? What is the attraction?
Bill sent me MarkW’s email address. I am thankful.
"Woe be unto the shepherds that scatter the sheep..." (Ezekiel 34).
2:15 pm I really should get a life.
I think I’ll plant some marigolds...
Nate is at the control panel. I feel like I am on my death bed. The plug is about to be pulled on my beloved TR Forum. I will miss my friends and my internet life here. This is where I met Peter and Dan and Michael and Darnell and Lori and Lily and so many more. This has been one of the highlights of the past 18 months of my life. It brought me out of my depression and made me feel young and alive again.....to converse with Messianics, scholars, and intellectuals from all over the world. As the song goes, This used to be my playground. This used to be my field of dreams. Dreams of sweet, like-minded fellowship...the swan pond. Yet the dream turned into a nightmare in myriad ways. Many have scattered to apostasy, differing world views, vain philosophies, and various theologies....some seem headed downstream in a river rushing to Rome. It is hard to believe that the Messianic passion chronology view is shifting back to “Good Friday”....disregarding the sign Yeshua gave us of “three days and three nights.” It boggles my mind. How can they be so blind? Why won’t they consider Dan Gregg’s Sabbath Resurrection chronology? What are they so afraid of that they refuse to engage him in scholarly debate?
“Tzuri, Tandi, Dan, and Tim, foursquare, is my prayer”.....and has been for many months as I walk in my prayer closet [sukkah] at the back of the woods “looking toward Yerushalayim in Yeshua’s Name, Amein.” These four names are the foundation of the sending forth of the "Faith once delivered" that I envision. It is hard to keep the dream alive. Yet it is even harder to give it up. Two white oxen, a cart, yoke-fellows, “what is in the cart?” the three in the Land, the ticker-tape. What does it all mean??
I logged out at 9:11 am.
9:12 am. The dastardly deed has yet to be done! Nate is still at the control panel. May he not lose all of our posts as he tries to keep some forums active and deactivate the main forum. Or is he planning to delete all of our posts?! Please, LORD, let them still be there. I should still be able to access the Philosophy class forum. There are over 100 members of the class but no conversation, other than David from Finland.
9:25 am. Now Heather and Marc and John are here with Bill. Nate is still here in his hidden state.
9:39 am. I am able to log on still! Nate is gone. Wanda has joined us. There are 6 members and 3 guests now.
John responded to my post re: Evolution vs Creation.
Trivia: I am member #374. Join date: 8/27/06. Total posts: 470 (0.74 posts per day).
11:07 am. Forum still alive. I’ll go for a walk in the woods and pray.
11:34 am. Back from walk. I saw a wild turkey and prayed, “O LORD, help this turkey find its way.” Someone I know will connect the dots. I got real close to the turkey. It wasn’t afraid of me. Finally it ran and flew over the fence, heading home.
11:35 am. The forum is still here. Tim is at the Admin Control Panel now. There are seven of us, and two guests. I wonder if Tim will pull the plug himself soon.
I see that Dan Gregg sent me an email. I will read it now. Good one! Actually there are two...and I enjoyed reading them, as usual. He always seems to nail the truth and get to the heart of the matter...often in an entertaining way with his wry humor and colorful vocabulary.
11:52 am. I wonder if they can’t figure out how to close the main forum. What is the delay?
Time for breakfast.
12:20 pm. Tim is reading the Evolution vs Creation thread and there is a new vote for Old Earth Creationism, bringing the total to 4 out of 35. I wonder if it was Tim who voted. He mentioned on one of his audios that some were wondering if he was "going to the dark side” (for abandoning his former Wed-Sat. passion chronology for the Friday crucifixion position which he now seems to tentatively hold).
12:33 pm. I’m going to sign off for a while and hope I can log on later.
2:42 pm. Logged on! Tim and the moderators are in moderator discussion.
4:44 pm. Still a forum with conversation on the Formerly Gentiles thread.
4:49 pm. Logged off. Not feeling well. I have a bad headache. Probably stress. Read Bible chapters at Erev (time of the evening sacrifice). Came across the words in Ezekiel about scattering the sheep. Not good in God’s eyes.
My Erev song lyrics:
When the sun is even with my eyes
Erev, erev, the darkening of the skies
Call it evening, prepare the sacrifice
Praise Yeshua, for giving us His life.
(Erev is the time of long shadows, a growing mixture of day and night, transition time....the ninth hour....3-4 pm in a 12 hour day)
I logged on this evening and logged off at 8:18 pm. Going to bed now. I will read Ezekiel 34 about the scattered sheep. I wonder if the forum will still be here in the morning.
5/22/08
Today I woke up early and the forum was still operational, so I posted a JPost article about the Apostolic Scriptures being burned in Israel by Yeshiva students. I made mention of the growing intolerance for religious differences. I posted my email address and asked if we could exchange contact info. I especially wanted to get in touch with MarkW, as I think we are somewhat like-minded.
11:40 am. I was talking to Dave on Messenger when it happened. All of a sudden I noticed the forum looked different. The Main forum was gone, leaving only the Class forum and Research Exchange forum. I was still online, and Tim was there.
My reaction:
“It’s gone! Right while we were talking...Tim or Nate pulled the plug! My beloved forum! They are so mean! I feel like Terri Schiavo.....they pulled out my lifeline!”
How cruel! Not a fond farewell or a caring kol tuv....just pull the plug as if to say, “Good riddance. You people are annoying.”
Last screen shot:
What's Going On?
Currently Active Users: 9 (8 members and 1 guests)
Most users ever online was 60, 02-01-2007 at 08:56 AM.
mlafaive, bbeyer, Dan Benzvi, Heather, JKMcKee, Rebekah Lee-Giam G.L., wshepherd
Torah Resource Forums Statistics
Threads: 1,525, Posts: 20,293, Members: 656, Active Members: 164
Welcome to our newest member, Todd T
12:17 pm. Logged off. I wonder if I can log back on later. I am doing okay so far because I am talking to Dave on Messenger. We are having a nice chat. Also, I posted at Dan’s forum about his excellent article. Dave is reading that now. And we are chatting about Peter and his future. I am not depressed....yet.
2:14 pm. I am back on.....and 5 of us and 2 guests are all in the line of names hanging out together. Marc is here, and he is not enrolled in a class so they must not have purged the membership list. But only class members can post at the Philosophy forum. Yet no one has posted. Just Bill, Darnell, and Pati right now. I still do not have PM access or Member List access or access to the archives. So here we sit. Wish we could organize a silent protest...100 or more names just sitting here, shut out from the conversation. LORD, bring this idea to the minds of others to just park here.
Messenger conversation with Dave:
i am laughing
Moss says: (2:20:23 PM)
there are 9 of us here at TR forum...our names in a line as we sit with no ability to post
Moss says: (2:20:52 PM)
this could become a silent protest if everyone would get the idea to just come and park their name here in a row
Moss says: (2:21:15 PM)
what would we call it? A sign-in, a park-in?
Moss says: (2:21:32 PM)
in hippie days we had sit-ins, be-ins, etc.
Moss says: (2:22:32 PM)
there are 165 active members...what if we all just parked our names here!!!!
Moss says: (2:23:11 PM)
i must not be the only one that needs to get a life
Moss says: (2:23:19 PM)
what are the rest of them doing here?
Moss says: (2:24:05 PM)
well, i'm going to leave my name here while i take a walk. i have a life beyond the TR forum!
2:27 Paula and Sharon are here...7 members, 2 guests.
I will list those I see coming to the empty forum page like honeybees shut out from their hive.
Aaron
Heather
Dan B
Marc
Lori
Darnell
Louise
Daniel K
Jeri
Heather
Lori
Ellen
Mark W
Ryan
Tanya
Redbeard
Darnell
Aaron
Pati
Rebekah
I archived the page, the last page before it ended. I pull it up and look at it sometimes. This is a snapshot of my former life.
Darnell and Lori are hanging out there now. There is nothing to do. Why do we keep coming back? What is the attraction?
Bill sent me MarkW’s email address. I am thankful.
"Woe be unto the shepherds that scatter the sheep..." (Ezekiel 34).
2:15 pm I really should get a life.
I think I’ll plant some marigolds...
5/09/2008
Nostalgia...The Best Day of My Internet Life
Collaboration with Peter on this poetic protest against unbalanced feeding at the trough of Rabbinic Judaism was a heady experience. It resulted in exciting spiritual victories over damaging false teachings that were going around at the time. Unfortunately, it also resulted in a giant target on the back of my friend, courtesy of the enemy of his soul. With all the spiritual strength I can muster, by the grace of God, and the prayers of others, I am determined not to let this highly gifted and greatly beloved wounded soldier die.
Wednesday, December 27, 2006
Finding Our Way: The Mired Journey from Destruction's City to Destruction's Town
Destruction's City......
Heathen statutes undiscerned
Way of the heathen amply learned
Veneer of ardor so impeccant
Empty shell, to God abhorrent
Destruction's City grasps the roll
Communion with departed souls
Gravesite veneration
Unholy spirit dissemination.
To the Holy City....Statutes heathen they discernPerfect precepts embraced to learnPursuit of God, humble suppliantTrust in God, on Him reliantDestruction's City no longer pullsCity of God ahead the goalHoly Writ infatuationSpirit, joy, celebration.
Path Differed: Destruction's Town...
Heathen statutes undiscerned
Way of the heathen amply learned
Thrice-washed hands, yet on descent
Postern entry, signage reticent
Wayward town, rote to lull
Spirit's fire dampened, dull
Gravesite veneration
Unholy spirit dissemination.
by Peter C. Sander
edit by Renah
4/24/2008
Passion Chronology Uncensored
I tried to post this at FFOZ blog (Good Friday Revisited) but was edited. Pouncing on my “counting error,” Toby chose only to publish my first sentence. I will post my full contribution to the discussion here and answer Toby’s question.
My censored/edited post:
The following is the portion of my post that was published....and the response.....
My answer:
Maybe I was counting with a midrashic flavor? : )
Six days could mean “any number of days.” Why take the number of days literally here and not in your midrashic-flavored Good Friday to Saturday night scenario?
If you are trying to find a way to preserve one Church tradition (Good Friday) why not be consistent and preserve the other (Palm Sunday). In doing so, Wednesday, the TRUE Crucifixion day, could be conveniently eliminated from the Passion week in order to count those six days! Now there’s a solution!
Ah, yes, “Silent Wednesday”....that pesky, enigmatic day that is ignored in the Catholic/Traditional Passion Week chronology. Could it be that Yeshua really was delivered up and crucified on that day? A day the devil would like to blot out by creating unresolved confusion in our calendars? You can not have “Palm Sunday” be the tenth of Aviv (when the lambs were selected) and still have “Good Friday” be the Crucifixion day without eliminating the TRUE Crucifixion day, the fourth day of the week!
I find the prejudice against the fourth day very interesting and another sign that the truth is indeed being suppressed, as referenced even in the confusion of the account in the Didascalia Apostolorum:.
I advocate a Chronology in which all the puzzle pieces fit together without contradiction, Wednesday-Sabbath. The women came to the tomb with the spices on Mia Sabbaton, the first (or one) of the Sabbaths after the Passover High Sabbath, during the count of seven weekly Sabbaths to Shavuot. This Mia Sabbaton was Resurrection Day.
The fatal flaw with Toby’s midrashic-flavored proposal is Yeshua’s words, “three days AND THREE NIGHTS.” If only Yeshua had not added those problematic “three nights” to His words in Matt. 12:40 maybe we could get away with not taking Him literally! Or should we go with the spurious “Gospel According to the Hebrews” version that Toby cites, that leaves out these words?
Distinctive to the apocryphal Gospel According to the Hebrews is this oddity (according to Wikipedia):
According to Biblical Chronology, as well as Jewish tradition, the Torah was given on Shabbat. How fitting that the Living Torah would rise on Shabbat as well! The Sabbath is the sign of God’s covenant relationship with Israel, not Sunday!
Original article/discussion available here:
FFOZ Blogs : Good Friday Revisited
For further study of Passion Chronology and the Sabbath Resurrection, see the writings of Daniel Gregg at
Welcome to Torahtimes
Join us for open discussion at the Torahtimes forum!
My censored/edited post:
One problem with the Friday crucifixion is that it has Yeshua traveling a long distance on Sabbath six days previously (John 12:1). Another is that He is in the tomb less than 30 hours!
I believe the Biblical evidence shows that Yeshua died on Wednesday and rose three days/three nights later on Sabbath, just before dawn. Most, if not all, of the difficulties can be resolved with this Chronology, including...
In three days
After three days
The third day
Avoidance of Road to Emmaus falling on 4th day
Fulfillment of three days/three nights types, shadows, hints including:
Sign of Jonah
Binding of Isaac
Baker (Bread) and Cupbearer (Wine) in Genesis 40
Egyptian (1 Samuel 30)
It also takes into consideration parallels, prophecies, and history including:
First of Firstfruits Wave Offering on 16th
Giving of Torah on Sabbath at Mt. Sinai
Pharisaic reckoning to Shavuot
Hosea 5 prophecy
Key to the Chronology is reckoning by overlapping Temple/Pharisaic calendars. I would be happy to discuss details on the forum.
The following is the portion of my post that was published....and the response.....
One problem with the Friday crucifixion is that it has Yeshua traveling a long distance on Sabbath six days previously (John 12:1).
**Toby's Response:** Can you explain why we would have to reckon it like this with a Friday crucifixion? Six days before Passover would be Sunday.
Posted by: Maureen (Renah) | April 22, 2008 1:29 PM
My answer:
Maybe I was counting with a midrashic flavor? : )
Six days could mean “any number of days.” Why take the number of days literally here and not in your midrashic-flavored Good Friday to Saturday night scenario?
If you are trying to find a way to preserve one Church tradition (Good Friday) why not be consistent and preserve the other (Palm Sunday). In doing so, Wednesday, the TRUE Crucifixion day, could be conveniently eliminated from the Passion week in order to count those six days! Now there’s a solution!
Ah, yes, “Silent Wednesday”....that pesky, enigmatic day that is ignored in the Catholic/Traditional Passion Week chronology. Could it be that Yeshua really was delivered up and crucified on that day? A day the devil would like to blot out by creating unresolved confusion in our calendars? You can not have “Palm Sunday” be the tenth of Aviv (when the lambs were selected) and still have “Good Friday” be the Crucifixion day without eliminating the TRUE Crucifixion day, the fourth day of the week!
I find the prejudice against the fourth day very interesting and another sign that the truth is indeed being suppressed, as referenced even in the confusion of the account in the Didascalia Apostolorum:.
Around the year 200, a document purporting to pass on apostolic instruction, called the Didascalia Apostolorum, mentions that the last Passover of Jesus Christ and His disciples was on a Tuesday night. It should be noted that the timing mentioned in the document corresponds to the biblical method of counting time—i.e., the week started with Sunday as the first day and the days began at sunset.
This document states: "For when we had eaten the Passover on the third day of the week at even [Tuesday evening], we went forth to the Mount of Olives ; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week [Wednesday], He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest."
Paradoxically, the text goes on to mention that Jesus was crucified on a Friday—showing great confusion about the dates, for the biblical account clearly states that Christ was crucified on the day following that Passover meal. Nonetheless, the document demonstrates that Passover was then understood by some to have been on Tuesday evening, which would place the crucifixion on the next day, Wednesday.
I advocate a Chronology in which all the puzzle pieces fit together without contradiction, Wednesday-Sabbath. The women came to the tomb with the spices on Mia Sabbaton, the first (or one) of the Sabbaths after the Passover High Sabbath, during the count of seven weekly Sabbaths to Shavuot. This Mia Sabbaton was Resurrection Day.
The fatal flaw with Toby’s midrashic-flavored proposal is Yeshua’s words, “three days AND THREE NIGHTS.” If only Yeshua had not added those problematic “three nights” to His words in Matt. 12:40 maybe we could get away with not taking Him literally! Or should we go with the spurious “Gospel According to the Hebrews” version that Toby cites, that leaves out these words?
Distinctive to the apocryphal Gospel According to the Hebrews is this oddity (according to Wikipedia):
Among the most distinctive traditions is the depiction of Mary, like the Johannine logos, as divine— in fact, that she was the incarnation of Michael, who was the personification of the Holy Spirit. Also, Jesus first appears to his brother James following the resurrection.
According to Biblical Chronology, as well as Jewish tradition, the Torah was given on Shabbat. How fitting that the Living Torah would rise on Shabbat as well! The Sabbath is the sign of God’s covenant relationship with Israel, not Sunday!
Original article/discussion available here:
FFOZ Blogs : Good Friday Revisited
For further study of Passion Chronology and the Sabbath Resurrection, see the writings of Daniel Gregg at
Welcome to Torahtimes
Join us for open discussion at the Torahtimes forum!
4/08/2008
A Maze is Grace Sometimes.....
I asked the Lord that I might grow
In faith, and love, and every grace;
In faith, and love, and every grace;
Might more of His salvation know,
And seek, more earnestly, His face.
"Twas He who taught me thus to pray,
And He, I know, has answered prayer!
But it has been in such a way,
As almost drove me to despair.
I hoped that in some favored hour,
At once He'd answer my request;
And by His love's constraining pow'r,
Subdue my soul, and give me rest.
Instead of this, He made me feel
The hidden evils of my heart;
Let all the angry pow'rs of hell
Assault my soul in every part.
Yea more, by His own hand He seemed
Intent to aggravate my woe;
Crossed all the fair designs I schemed,
Blasted my hopes, and laid me low.
Lord, why is this, I trembling cried,
Wilt thou pursue thy worm to death?
"'Tis in this way, the Lord replied,
I answer prayer for grace and faith.
These inward trials I employ,
From self, and sin, to set thee free;
Blast all thy schemes of earthly joy,
That thou may'st find thy all in Me."
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)